[z3-five] Re: Plans for the near future?

[Tres Seaver]

Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Lennart Regebro wrote:
> 
>> After now having worked with five for slightly more than a week, I 
>> would first like to say: Good work.
>
> Thanks! I just returned to work from a 3 week break today; got married 
> and had a honeymoon. :)

Congratulations!

> Also thank you for your questions; it's nice to get this feedback and it 
> helps setting direction for the project.
> 
>> Then I would like to know a bit more about your ideas for the near 
>> Five-future.
> 
> 
> My only concrete plan is releasing a new version of Five that is stated 
> compatible with Zope X3 final and Zope 2.7.3. I think the main open 
> issue is the whole thing about the error message for pages that don't 
> exist. Last I heard there was talk about fixing a bug in 2.7, before 
> that there was some very smart but very scary code in Five that I'd 
> rather not see. Not sure about the status now, but I'll find out soon. :)
> 
>> Most importantly, are there any plans for implementing z3 forms and 
>> being able to utilize the same templates in z2 and z3?
> 
> 
> These seem to be two questions. I'd definitely like to be able to use z3 
> schema/forms, if that is the question. There have been some attempts in 
> this direction, but more work needs to be done. I haven't made definite 
> plans to commit to this work yet as we don't need it yet, but I'm 
> certainly available to assist with this work.
> 
> I think we need to have some discussions on the page template issue and 
> what the best approach to use is here. There are a number of routes to 
> take and various consequences. Let's spin off a thread about this; what 
> do people want and what problems do people see?
> 
>> And how does this tie in the Jim Fultons plans for Zope 2.9, to be 
>> make it possible to write products that can run both in Z2.9 and Z3?
> 
> 
> We don't know for sure; I'm not sure anyone knows. :) Jim Fulton likes 
> Five and I've worked with him on various issues concerning Five. Tres as 
> you can see is active on this list. I think Five or something very 
> Five-like stands a good chance of making it into Zope 2.9. Since this is 
> open source, in part this depends on ourselves. Even if Five doesn't 
> make it into Zope 2.9, Zope 2.9 will support ZCML anyway, and ZCML and 
> code written for Five shouldn't be that hard to adapt.
> 
> Some of the work planned for Zope 2.8 and 2.9 is orthogonal to Five's 
> work. An example is the ZODB 3.3 integration into Zope 2.8. There are 
> also plans to share the page template engine between Zope 3 and Zope 2. 
> In addition, Jim plans integration of the Zope 3 security infrastructure 
> with Zope 2. I don't see a conflict between these plans and Five.
> 
>> Five is obviously is a state where you can write stuff with it, as 
>> long as your product is all Five, but a lot of people will need to 
>> integrate with CMF, and that becomes extremely complicated now...
> 
> 
> Infrae sees the same complications with integrating Five and Silva, and 
> this is an area I'll try to investigate. For Silva I've been considering 
> a more revolutionary transition to Zope 3 page templates and ZCML as we 
> have more control over our page templates than is typical for CMF, which 
> is a more widely used framework. This is a large step even for us 
> though, so more recently I've been pondering more evolutionary 
> approaches as well. I hope that this thinking will also be useful to CMF 
> developers.
> 
> With CMF integration I'll need some help though. Luckily lots of very 
> qualified people in the CMF department are active on the mailing list 
> already, so I have good hopes we'll be able to work something out.

I had a glimmer of an idea about this, but unfortunately was not where I 
could stop and write it down / check it out, so it now eludes me.  I 
*think* it had something to do with adding a "view bridge" component, 
which would wrap around the "skin templates" and "skin scripts", faking 
them out by providing an appropriate context.

Tres.
-- 
===============================================================
Tres Seaver                                tseaver at zope.com
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